AudioShocker

As Nick mentioned his JCVD letter of intent over the weekend, Culturology will be joining in on the officially-begun-but-lasting-as-long-as-possible Van Damme Fest 2K9+, by posting occasional roundtable discussions focusing on a couple or a few of Jean-Claude's movies at a time. Why do I call them roundtables, as opposed to dialogues or crosstalks? Because, though the discussion is begun here by Nick and I, it will be continued by you, the reader, and all the other JCVD enthusiasts from all over the web.

Why JCVD? I think Nick and I both reveal our motivation in this first discussion, because it certainly relates to the still-recent movie JCVD, where Van Damme plays a washed up version of himself. We'll certainly talk about this more when we get to the actual roundtable about JCVD, so I won't say much now, but part of this exploration, to me, is about learning how, exactly, and how well JCVD earned the ability to do self-parody of JCVD. Also, it's about broadening our horizons here at Culturology, since we've been notoriously pro-Schwarzenegger and pro-Statham as action heroes, but need to get to the slightly different genre of kung-fu action, where for a time at least, JCVD reigned supreme (at least in terms of Hollywood movies). Also, JCVD is often overlooked, as that guy that did the splits all the time, and the guy that wasn't Steven Seagal or Stallone or even Chuck Norris. But to remind you all that the kung-fu wave of the late-80s early 90s produced plenty of more terrible fare, I present you with this scene from 1993's Undefeatable:

Roundtable #1

Nick:

I'm not exactly sure where to start. Thing is, I think we both generally agree that Bloodsport is superior to Kickboxer. However, maybe we disagree about the WHYs and HOWs of its superiority... at least I hope we do (because that would provide extra dramatic tension).

My general feeling is this: Bloodsport is an amazing cultural document with a fascinating history, while Kickboxer is fun martial arts film with a solid training sequence and strong final battle.

If I could draw parallels to other films, I would compare the feeling I get from Kickboxer to that of The Karate Kid, Part II, while Bloodsport feels more like Enter the Dragon. In my mind, those parallels run fairly deep - Bloodsport is a gritty "street style" film in many ways, a descendant of the Bruce Lee school of martial arts film making. It involves disparate fighters coming together for an international tournament of questionable legality. Kickboxer is more about personal vendetta and self-improvement, similar to the entire Karate Kid franchise. In particular, Kickboxer has echoes of The Karate Kid, Part II in both its final battle and in its "a small town is being bullied by local thugs so they send an outsider to defend it" conflict.

In this sense - as bizarre as it may sound - I see Bloodsport as a trendsetter, while I view Kickboxer as a perfection of its genre. It's hard for me to pinpoint exactly why I feel that way, but that's my general impression.

Pete:

I do agree that Bloodsport is the more satisfying movie. Are you calling it an "amazing cultural document" because it's based on a true story--or true life--of Frank Dux, or because of the position it holds relative to awesome fighting tournament movies? I think both aspects are legitimately interesting, especially since many of Dux's claims, apparently, came under fire, in terms of what kind of achievements he ever really gained. It certainly does owe quite a bit to Enter the Dragon, given the best-fighters-from-around-the-world-all-fight-in-this-one-tournament style, except it lacks anything that really makes a hero out of Dux the way that Bruce Lee is a hero at a larger level for overthrowing the tyrant that runs the tournament/compound that Lee infiltrates. But I think that Bloodsport expects us to perceive Van Damme as a hero of equal stature to Lee. It seems to me that this is premised on the fact that Van Damme is white (Belgian, and one of the great things that both these movies share is the unnecessary explanations of why Van Damme has his accent).

Both Kickboxer (which actually goes so far as to have Van Damme's character hailed as "the White Warrior") and Bloodsport, being movies from the late '80s, have a post-Vietnam flavor to them, dealing as much (allegorical, I suppose) with PTSD as with the actual violence of the war. Hence you have the white characters heading to the distant Orient to reclaim some lost manhood or dominance. This is also why, to me, the sidekick character in Bloodsportt is more interesting than the brother character in Kickboxer, since the brother just gets his ass kicked, whereas the buddy in Bloodsport actually seemed to be beating Chong-Li before his macho attitude and swagger finally opened him up to defeat. And, since you bring it up, Nick, the Karate Kid movies also deal quite a bit with post-Vietnam issues, especially Part III, where two Vietnam veterans do all they can to ruin the life of an 18 year old kid (which is, in my book, pretty much completely awesome).

For me personally, as much as Bloodsport is more enjoyable, Kickboxer holds a special position because it was a mythical movie for me during my childhood. I was aware of its existence for a long time, but never allowed to watch it (until I was old enough that my parents didn't try to stop me from watching R-rated movies)--but even then, for whatever reasons, I never watched it until very recently. But I very specifically recall, especially because I liked the original Karate Kid trilogy so much, that there was this movie out there, called Kickboxer, which was just the most awesome and brutal movie there ever was. It's not really all that brutal (paralyzation and rape aside), and the Muay Thai choreography ain't that great (especially compared to the more recent extremely awesome Muay Thai movies from Tony Jaa (I don't think I've ever seen more (simulated) broken bones in a movie than there are in The Protector)), but it really is an awesome movie, both for its own time and for the ages.

Nick:

My hyperbole-esque "amazing cultural document" line was referring to Bloodsport's place among awesome fighting tournament stories at large. Without a doubt, it was a direct influence on Street Fighter and the entire rich birth of fighting video games (that's not to say that Enter the Dragon wasn't as much of an influence -- just a different type of influence because Bloodsport was a contemporary of video games and even has that awesome arcade game sequence in it).

Speaking of which... how meta is that whole thing? Van Damme plays a tournament fighter in Bloodsport, wherein he plays a fighting game as his first real competition in the film. Then the arcade smash Street Fighter II comes out a few years later and totally runs off the Bloodsport-inspired resurgence of martial arts tournament stories. Then Van Damme actually stars in the Street Fighter movie a few years after that. Then, to tie-in with the film, there's an arcade game released with Van Damme's face and body literally in the role of Guile. That really takes the whole thing full circle.

Anyway, to address another one of your points, I think the Vietnam themes in both Bloodsport and Kickboxer are there, but I see them differently. Simply by casting a European man in both those roles, it completely changes the meaning. While the scripts may have tried to address PTSD and other such Vietnam themes more directly, the actual films don't play on those themes in quite the same way with JCVD in the lead. Though his characters have American connections in both films, he himself is of European origin, and thus the concept of the "white characters heading to the distant Orient to reclaim some lost manhood or dominance" is transformed into something else. In fact, the "best friend" characters in both films - Ray Jackson and Winston Taylor - are really the characters attempting to reclaim some sort of macho manhood or dominance. And things don't really work out smoothly for them. Instead, Van Damme becomes the cultural wild card for the audience -- he's not from the country where the story takes place, but he's also not from America (or, at least, he doesn't represent the traditional "American man"). I see Van Damme's characters in these films being less about some sort of post-Vietnam white manhood and more about cultural exchange. Maybe I'm wrong about that because I'm looking back on stories from 20 years ago and commenting on them now. But I also don't think that particular Vietnam war theme is as direct as you make it out to be (Rambo and 80s Chuck Norris seem to do a better job at that notion of reclaiming cultural dominance for the American white male).

As for significance, Kickboxer is definitely more culturally quotable. The Hot Shots franchise even parodied the final Kickboxer battle in full. But I think that Bloodsport is the more revolutionary of the two, especially considering that the film was shelved for years until Van Damme got it re-edited and eventually released. The Dux thing is cool, but that's only a part of what makes the movie, to me, a cultural landmark in action and adventure cinema. I mean, when was the last time a low budget action movie was able to struggle its way to the top? Comedy, drama, even horror - but almost never an action.

Pete:

Speaking of meta, have you seen JCVD? I think it's actually a pretty solid movie, not great, but certainly entertaining for Van Damme's portrayal of himself as a washed up former star.

I agree with you about the Vietnam stuff; I think certainly it's Ray Jackson and Winston Taylor that are the "macho" straight-up Americans set to conquer. But I don't think the writer would have bothered with the accent explanations if it weren't to clarify that Van Damme's characters ARE American. Think of Arnold Schwarzenegger: he's always just an American tough, with an apple pie kind of name, and his accent is just ignored. So yes, Van Damme, is a different kind of American, but it's crucial that he be seen as American (from both the writer's and the viewers' perspectives). In Kickboxer you see it because Van Damme has respect for Muay Thai where Taylor doesn't, in the early sequence where Van Damme tries to talk Taylor out of fighting. And then Van Damme goes on to learn that style, so yes in a way it is about cultural exchange; but, given that once Van Damme becomes "Asian" by learning their fighting, he is hailed by the crowds as "the white warrior" which still has implications for East/West relations. And yes, there are better examples of the post-Vietnam thing to be found in Chuck Norris (and actually, I should admit, I've never seen any of the Rambo movies the whole way through), but if not explicitly about the war, there's still some kind of Orientalism afoot here, in terms of Van Damme's needing to learn the ways of the Mystic Orient in order to conquer it.

That's a good point about Bloodsport's low budget. It's hard to imagine another kind of movie that could meet similar success, since they really only needed a handful of sets to make that movie. Especially when you compare it to higher budget versions of similar plots--essentially, the video game movies of Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat (it's been since college since I've seen either of these, but I feel like I would defend them both, and I know you love Street Fighter)--the more costly movies really don't do it any better.

Did Van Damme himself ever do any better than Bloodsport or Kickboxer?

Nick:

Yeah, I have seen JCVD. It's what got me started on my Jean-Claude Van Damme marathon. I think he's definitely self-aware and actually pretty sick of the Hollywood entertainment machine, and I find that refreshing. I don't think Arnold ever quite reached that point.

So far, I've watched all of Van Damme's catalog up through 1996 or 1997. None of those films have reached the heights of Bloodsport or Kickboxer. But that's as a whole film -- in general, his acting seems to improve with just about every movie I see (except for the huge dip when he made the Dennis Rodman team-up, Double Team, and the Rob Schneider team-up, Knock Off). I just recently watched The Quest, which is sort of like JCVD's big budget version of a historical Bloodsport. While the movie itself isn't as much fun as Bloodsport, it does have some finer moments (including excellent character work by Van Damme). The actual tournament fight in The Quest is probably perfects upon the concept behind Bloodsport, but it stills lacks some of the original's suspense and lo-fi charm. Interestingly, his best films following Bloodsport and Kickboxer seem to be complete departures from the tournament genre, those being Nowhere to Run and Maximum Risk.