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So Nick and I are back this week with the second installment of our broadly-sweeping discussion of Van Damme Fest 2K9+ (and stay tuned in the coming weeks for even more special Van Damme Fest 2K9+ features!). In our first discussion we looked at the two inarguable classics of Van Damme's output: Bloodsport and Kickboxer. This week, we take a look a three movies from the apex of Van Damme's career in the mid-90s: Sudden Death, The Quest, and Maximum Risk.

And, as usual, to remind you all that there are plenty of good reasons for us to be dedicating so much time to the Muscles from Brussels, I present you this non-Van-Damme-related clip of a daring feat of strength, that does not compare with Van Damme's stunning ability to play his own identical twin in a movie:

Roundtable #2

Pete: For this roundtable, we're fast-forwarding from the early successes of JCVD's introduction to Hollywood all the way to the apex and end of his decade-long run as a truly viable action star, with a discussion of Sudden Death (1995), The Quest (1996), and Maximum Risk (1996). Granted, there are plenty of movies between Kickboxer and Sudden Death to discuss, and then the whole span of 1997-2007 before JCVD to discuss, but in a way, talking about these three movies gives us a solid set of bookends within which to discuss Van Damme's various movies. None of these three movies are great, but none of them are terrible either. In fact, I would argue that Maximum Risk was really quite good, and doesn't start too look bad until compared with more recent movies like the Bourne Blah-Blah-Blah trilogy. And with all three of these movies, we get great examples of the fact that, whether or not any skeptics would want to admit it, Van Damme definitely spent some quality time with an acting coach or two during his transition from kung-fu tournament movie star to Hollywood action movie star. The Quest, as a historical epic and tournament movie, is a bit of anomaly, stuck between the straight forward (and based in Pittsburgh!) Sudden Death and the also straight forward (but Van Damme plays identical twins!) Maximum Risk. But there's plenty to talk about for each and across all three of these movies.

If I had to pick one, I'd probably pick Maximum Risk as the best of the three, but I'm guessing you'll pick differently, Nick, since I can imagine you favoring the ambition of The Quest, plus the added bonus of it's involving Frank Dux (who gets co-credit for the story idea with Van Damme (even if that's just because the plot is pretty much just Bloodsport, sixty years earlier). Also, let's check what movies Van Damme was up against... Schwarzenegger, in similar years, was in a comedy phase, making Junior and Jingle All the Way, but also made Eraser. Stephen Seagal made Under Siege 2, Executive Decision, and The Glimmer Man. Stallone made Judge Dredd, Assassins, and Daylight. Who's really in charge here?

Nick:

Actually, my favorite of the three is also Maximum Risk. It really is a proto-Bourne film, keeping most of the mysterious international intrigue aspects but ditching the horrid camera work of the Matt Damon series. I also have to agree that Van Damme's acting is pretty strong. It tends to improve with every film. Imagine how awesome Bloodsport would be if he could turn out the emotion of Maximum Risk? That would be amazing!

I also have to agree that it seems like The Quest was JCVD's attempt to do just that - make a richer and more emotional entertainment experience with the same core concept as Bloodsport. Unfortunately, it's just an oddball. While the tournament is incredible, the character work is bizarre. Van Damme is a Charlie Chaplin meets Bruce Lee vagabond who gets used by a cheeky "pirate" played by Roger Moore... WTF??? Furthermore, Van Damme's character isn't even likable. He's kinda sleazy with his weird Oliver Twist style crew of children thieves. When it comes to fighting, you root for him because you want to see Van Damme kick ass, but there's nothing about the character's personality that makes you want him to win.

As for Sudden Death, it's my least favorite of the three, but probably the most memorable. From my office, I can see the Mellon Civic Arena where the movie was filmed, and I know the other exterior locations. In fact, I'm pretty sure one scene was even filmed on Beeler Street (a small college road where Pete and I used to party).

Looking at those other films coming out during this period, it really appears like Jean-Claude was the most serious action star of the group. He never hit the screwball comedy genre like Arnie, and he didn't make a single sequel until the end of the 90s. Unfortunately, the way I see it, all this good mojo was soon scattered as Double Team and Knock Off absolutely ravaged JCVD's credibility for the rest of the decade.

Pete:

One thing that holds Maximum Risk back is its premise that JCVD had an identical twin brother (which, at this point, I believe, he had already done once). It just seems silly and incredibly vain. Also, how much of the credit for Maximum Risk should go to Ringo Lam? I know he's mostly a Hong Kong (I think) movie director, but also one of his movies was very influential on Tarantino in Resevoir Dogs.

The more I come back to thinking about The Quest, the less I like it. One thing about tournament movies in general is that they pretty much never feature fighting that's as good as the best kung-fu action movies, and it's very difficult to maintain interest in between the fights. Kickboxer does it the same way Rocky IV does, by focusing on the training and personal growth and the larger-than-life enemy. Bloodsport does it by mostly just having a lot of fighting, some entertaining scenes with an awesome sidekick, and sprinklings of a love interest. The Quest is more or less the same plot as Bloodsport (apparently, the only way that JCVD or Dux could imagine a woman caring about a fighting tournament was by having her be a reporter), but with all kinds of bloated filler and pseudo-adventure plot. Rather than action movies like Maximum Risk or Sudden Death, I think it was The Quest that represents more of JCVD's downfall than anything.

Are there any biographies available of Van Damme? One of us should read up on it. I was talking to a friend who worked in movies a bit, and who actually claimed to have one time worked with Van Damme's stunt double, who hated Van Damme for ruining both of their careers. Accusations of drug problems, vanity, and failure to meet commitments abounded. I can definitely imagine Dux and Van Damme doing a ton of blow and making out with each other in their minds while conceiving The Quest. I'll be curious to see Van Damme's late nineties escapades to see exactly how far he falls.

Sudden Death is definitely the most memorable, Nick, even though it's not great. Partially because it was conceived by the owner of the Pens as a way to advertise for his team, which is kind of awesome. But that's just it. JCVD, more than anything else is known for his bloated non-success movies, with maybe an afterthought for the fact that Bloodsport and Kickboxer were really pretty good. Did Van Damme ever make a true martial arts action movie?

Nick:

I'm not sure what you mean by "true kung-fu movie." Give me some examples!

I can't believe how down everyone is on The Quest. On A Podcast with Ross and Nick #24, we discussed this film and Ross is really down on it just like you. All I'm saying is that The Quest looks like an Oscar contender compared to Double Team, Knock Off, and Legionnaire. I thought The Quest was hokey here and there (and certainly bizarre -- a street fighting stilt mime stows away on a cargo liner and gets sold into martial arts slavery by a flamboyant pirate), but enjoyable. I also thought that the fighting tournament was sweet as hell.

Ringo Lam was probably a big part of the quality of Maximum Risk. He did In Hell, which was a solid Van Damme flick. He also did Replicant, which I hear is great... but the movie just arrived to my house from Netflix and the DVD was cracked in half (!!!) so I have to wait until they reship it. In fact, I was on a waiting list to receive Replicant in the first place, so I'm kind of worried that there is no replacement copy...

Still, I thought Jean-Claude was really good in Maximum Risk. But would I rewatch the movie? Hell no!

That leads me to an interesting point: which Van Damme films have the highest rewatchability? I think a movie that can be rewatched -- regardless of "quality" -- is a great indication of a compelling and memorable story. In my mind, that easily places Bloodsport at the top. I've watched Timecop a few times now, and while it drags here and there, it still maintains some fun. I've seen Street Fighter a few times in the past few years and I always get a kick out of it. I'm looking forward to rewatching JCVD, though I'm dreading its rewatchability factor... will it be high or low? Other Van Damme movies I would willingly rewatch include Lionheart, Kickboxer, and maybe Nowhere to Run. I would rewatch The Quest, but just forward it to the tournament scenes. In Hell definitely has rewatchability -- but the content is so visceral and violent that it would be hard to just pop it on and let it play in the background.

Pete:

I guess I mean an action movie where most of the action/fighting is in some kind of martial-arts-esque mode, beyond just the kick-and-punch of something like Maximum Risk. Jackie Chan's early movies, for instance. Or Jet Li's. Or Tony Jaa's The Protector (one of the best ever that I've seen, for it's Muay Thai-based fighting). To me, in Sudden Death, Van Damme may as well be Stallone or anyone else that can look worried and throw a punch.

As for The Quest, Nick, I think you've just got a higher tolerance for camp than most people. I recall how I felt like you almost felt as though I had betrayed you by not liking X-Men Origins: Wolverine; it's similar here: at some point, The Quest crosses this line where the good (but not great) fighting scenes in the tournament don't make up for all the rubbish that surrounds them.

I think I'll have a better opinion on the rewatchability once I've seen more of Van Damme's movies--I'm way behind you on that front--but Bloodsport is the most obviously rewatchable. I plan on rewatching JCVD before the end of all this Van Damme discussion, but I too dread that it won't be as cool a second time around.