but let me end with a question - what about when ironic enjoyment of something co-exists along with non-ironic enjoyment? i think the combination makes it even better. for example, Total Recall. it's corny in many parts (some of the dialogue, situations, and F/X) but it also has genuinely solid characters and a gripping plot. or what about james brown? it's hard to enjoy him nowadays without recognizing some of the irony of his music. he has his real corny flourishes (Bobby?! BOBBY?!) mixed in with his moments of divine musical inspiration. why can't i have both irony and non-irony in one delicious package???!

At the same time, these are all details (Fast & Furious, Nicholas Cage, etc.) that I need to get out there before I present my master thesis of why the decadent mid-to-late '90s were utterly hideous and an unprecedented low point in American pop cultural output.

I realized, once I was finally writing it up, that it's been years (literally) since I actually listened to Pinkerton, so I'll see if I still own the disc and write a follow-up review sometime soon.

Kirsten, as for Sulu, yeah John Cho looks WAY too Korean to pass for Japanese. BUT i did some quick research and found out that Gene Rodenberry and George Takei intended to play Sulu as being non-denominational Asian (for better or worse). so maybe that's Abrams intent (which is fairly misguided but so is the entire new Star Trek trailer). and Kirsten - "Orient" ... seriously? SERIOUSLY?

as for Sunny in Philly, i don't care for it. i tried it and i can't get into. this is coming from a guy whose entire family lives in Philly and i visit the city probably 5+ times a year. it still doesn't do it for me. this also comes from a guy who appreciates Danny DeVito. ever see Screwed? yeah, DeVito is great. but Sunny still isn't doing it for me. AND this comes from a guy who has made somewhat of an art out of appreciating irreverent comedy (mostly low brow, of course). still, Sunny in Philly isn't doing it for me.

BUT on the other hand, i absolutely LOVE Pinkerton. let me put it like this: yeah, Jesus may have launched Christianity, but he was still a Jew. Pinkerton may have launched emo as a genre, but it's still a hard rock / alt rock album (to me, at least). i love the way the instruments were recorded. i love how raw but how solid the band sounds. i love the songwriting (this was the final time Rivers wasn't writing the tepid fluff that he churns out now). AND this was the final album with Matt Sharpe, whose awesome Weezer backing vocals have never been topped.

As usual, you're completely wrong about ironic enjoyment. I actually caught The Fast and the Furious on tv last night and fell in love all over again. I also managed to see Tokyo Drift (in Taiwan, on Chinese-subtitled HBO, perfect viewing conditions if there were any), and it is a beautiful, beautiful thing, featuring maybe the worst Southern accent ever to grace celluloid.

Speaking of the Orient, I can rarely tell Asian nationalities apart, but even I can see that John Cho doesn't look the least bit Japanese. That's my only complaint though; everything else about him is pure awesome.